WITH THE UNCERTAINTY surrounding the Canadian Television Fund, thanks to the fact Shaw Communications and Videotron have pulled their funding, it’s interesting to note the success of Vancouver producer and distributor Thunderbird Films.
Their suite at the recent NATPE trade show was overflowing with guests and clients there to see the company flog popular fare like Da Vinci’s Inquest, Intelligence, Cold Squad, DeGrassi: The Next Generation, and Stone Undercover.
While the interview was done prior to the CTF mess really hitting the fan (and the Thunderbird executives declined comment on it after the interview), Shaw Communications CEO Jim Shaw said one of the complaints he had of funding Canadian programming was that their success finding sales beyond Canada’s borders was limited.
However, a fragmenting audience has meant American broadcasters need good, but cheaper, programming to satisfy viewers and clients and with the huge number of reality hours in prime time nowadays (which does not do well in syndication), Thunderbird’s CEO Tim Gamble (top photo), and president Michael Shepard, say they’ve been experiencing stellar results of late selling Canadian programming on regional broadcasters and superstations.
It turns the conventional wisdom that Americans won’t watch TV shows based in Vancouver or Toronto on its head and reflects what we all want in our television – good stories.
What follows is an edited transcript of an interview by Cartt.ca editor and publisher Greg O’Brien with Shepard and Gamble from their suite at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas during last month’s NATPE gathering.
Greg O’Brien: What are you doing differently at this show this year compared to other years?
Tim Gamble: The main thing is we have much more product than we had a year ago. Our first year here we started with Da Vinci’s Inquest. This year we have Da Vinci’s Inquest, Cold S
quad and Stone Under Cover.
Michael Shepard: So that’s a two hour, Crime Watch block.
TG: It’s been phenomenal to be able to build on the success of Da Vinci, which when we first launched in syndication two years ago to this market, that was it. When we arrived, we had to build it. Now we’re arriving at the market with a new show, DeGrassi.
MS: And that’s going out on a daily strip, Monday through Friday. And that’s never happened before: a show coming off of cable and then going into syndication, because in the world of syndication previously was off-network syndication and first-run syndication – that took up of the whole syndication world. Now there’s a huge supply of syndicated programming to the United States which comes from Canada.
GOB: Part of the reason I came to this conference was the mobile day yesterday. For your particular shows, how are you dealing with the challenges and opportunities that mobile and wireless presents for you.
TG: At this point in time we’re pretty focused on the traditional business. We’re too small and we have to stay very focused on the opportunities that are in the communications business that didn’t exist for media products three or four years ago.
GOB: Right.
TG: So we’re really not paying very much attention to it.
MS: We’ve actually made a real mark because, five years ago, we couldn’t h
ave gotten to the syndication space because there was too much programming going after the dollar. The old syndicated shows were getting a three rating… but now they no longer get a three rating and if those shows were produced today they would get about a one rating.
You can’t produce the amount of money you need out of the United States based on a one share. It’s not viable. So, because the market decreased a little bit and more money went into cable programming, there was still a demand in syndication… an awful lot of demand, and there’s still an awful lot of money to continue to be made in the long term, it’s just different than it was before, and that’s been our opportunity.
GOB: And part of the change been the prime time focus on reality programming which doesn’t do well in syndication?
MS: Absolutely
TG: (Broadcasters) have been cutting down on drama in favor of reality.
MS: We are so thrilled with the real estate we have now with our shows on air in the United States, and once you have that real estate, you can do what you want with it. We have the Crime Watch block, we have the ability to put shows into the block next year, into syndication. We’re programming essentially our own networking Crime Watch and you know we’re looking at a number of shows that we will acquire for that.
GOB: And then, what new ones are you looking to add?
MS: Well, Intelligence is something to watch, I think it’s a good fit. The other ones we’re looking at I’m afraid I can’t tell you about…
TG: Greg, you know what it’s like having written for broadcasting in Canada as long as you have to understand the impact we’re having on the Canadian marketplace. I think that shows like Da Vinci’s Inquest and Cold Squad and Stone Undercover never had a window of opportunity in the U.S. So all of a sudden, with the success of Da Vinci’s Inquest, we’ve really pioneered and opened up this fantastic opportunity for Canadian shows to get a large audience.
It’s very exciting. It’s exciting for the broadcasters in Canada, for the funding agencies who have supported them, to know that our shows are reaching the largest, most lucrative market in the world.
GOB: And how are they faring ratings-wise?
MS: Generally we’re getting 3.4 million viewers a week for Da Vinci and we’re outperforming CSI: Miami in syndication, which I find amazing. Our ratings are neck-and-neck with 24, CSIs and Alias in syndication. Our Crime Watch regularly beats Smallville, Stargate and Star Trek. It’s a large impact and this year, we’ll be launching so much more. The future for us… our number of hours on-air, in 2008, will double.
GOB: Do you see putting Da Vinci’s Inquest back into production? I mean a lot of people in Canada think it was killed a little too early.
MS: We go to camera in two weeks… but it’s not a series, we’re doing a Da Vinci’s Inquest movie. And with Da Vinci’s Inquest in syndication, we’ll also have the City Hall version which we’re selling as new, new episodes of Da Vinci – and then also the City Hall movie as well.
GOB: So do you see your success changing how you produce content in Canada?
TG: That’s a great question, I think people in Canada will now have a more realistic view on your opportunity in the U.S. In the past it was really an afterthought. We thought, you know what, we have a show that’s originated in Vancouver, or originated in Toronto and it’s an afterthought that maybe we’ll get a chance in the U.S. I think now it’s much more than an afterthought and I think it can be a part of the financial matrix.
GOB: And that was always the thinking. I mean the Relic Hunters and the Nikitas of the world were produced in Canada but to be non-Canadian, where they could be from anywhere in the world. But your shows are specifically based in Canada, where the thinking was they’ll never sell beyond Canada.
TG: That’s correct. They’re very different types of shows.
MS: With the Relic Hunters and the Nikitas, their financial model is entirely different from what we’re doing in that they were requiring out of foreign a very significant pre-sale in that action-adventure hour.
It’s interesting, if someone were reading and saying what would sell, I think action adventure hours would be something that internationally everyone’s interested in and the U.S. it still works in syndication.
GOB: Do you see that type of production rebounding in Canada?
MS: Right now the programming from Canada we’re selling is driven by a strong creative force, so Intelligence and Da Vinci’s Inquest is based on the genius of Chris Haddock. If Chris Haddock has an idea for an adventure series, we would be all over it.
TG: Certainly the creative people and the Canadian broadcasters are driving the ship on this thing.
GOB: I wanted to go back to the issue of multiple screens, because part of the talk yesterday was to urge producers to stop thinking of making a TV show, and to believe they’re making content made for screens. Can you film content like that? Let’s say we both had a crystal ball here and we’re looking down the road.
MS: It depends on where your first window is. It’s the long tail. If your first window is on NBC or ABC or CBS, that’s going to help your foreign, that’s going to help your profile for everything. It’s like a theatrical release. If you get 3,000 screens. It’ll translate into mobile. It’ll translate into merchandising. That’s the model: Get the big release and the money trickles down and I think it’s the same in television. That’s what we’re trying to do with Intelligence, to get the launch together, to launch as big as possible. And once you have the States, then you can work from that.
TG: I mean, it’s like when you first started you were working for a small newspaper, a regional newspaper, and but ultimately you’re still a storyteller and while your medium has changed and the way you’re distributing your product has changed. ultimately your attract your audience because you tell a story that’s compelling.
Ultimately in this industry we have different technologies for filming and shooting but I think this business we’re in hasn’t changed – that’s to attract audiences by telling compelling stories.
GOB: I’m no believer that everything is going to die in a few years because of technology. Newspapers are still around. Radio is still around. TV will continue to prosper.
MS: I’ve been talking to guys from the radio industry. People predicted the death of the radio industry so long ago…
GOB: And radio revenue went up last year.
TG: What I think is next is this is how the economics changed the syndicated market – creating an enormous opportunity for Canadian shows. I think the economics of the network business is changing to the point that it’s going to create an opportunity for Canadians shows.
MS: There’s an opportunity for Canadian broadcast entities to take their (programming) to the United States like never before.
GOB: So you see it in other companies too with Nelvana selling programming everywhere and Corner Gas now available in the States and Trailer Park Boys…
TG: The fragmentation of the market is both good news and bad news. The smaller numbers give more opportunities for our shows.
